This is such a terrifying reality. I also notice a lot how people feel weird paying for online content. For example, people tell me I should write a book, and they would probably want to buy it to support me, but nobody wants to pay for the writing I do online because everyone just expects that to be free, even though it would probably help me a lot more than any sales I could ever make if I wrote a book. And I get it because until very recently I had a similar mindset. But yes, we need to change the way we think about this and support the artist more directly.
As an indie musician, this post was of great interest to me. I’m a Broadway actress/ singer who has self- produced my last 4 albums- my last album unexpectedly was nominated for Grammy award last year. I started my own Substack last year as a creative venture, a fun way to share a behind the scenes look at my work, recipes, my touring schedule etc. All my posts are free, but I’m toying with adding paid subscriptions next year as a way to help finance my next album. I think it’s important for musicians to own their own work- it’s hard work, but empowering.
We all consume art in some way or another as well as creating here, but I had no idea Spotify paid out so little to artists, that's completely taking their work for granted.
I have been thinking about money this week. I have this narrative, which I’m aware of but not sure I actually believe, which is that to expect your art to pay for your life is too big and ask and can end up commercialising it…. BUT that’s capitalism at play right there, isn’t it?! That’s undervaluing art and artists and the work we do. Someone somewhere is making the money and it should be the people doing the work!
Selina, Tamu and I recently role-played being financial dominatrixes after hearing how you can make serious dough from it. That’s before we got onto discussing feet. Absolutely hilarious 🤣🤣🤣 but also a sign of the f-d up times we’re in that we’re supposed to play starving artist who supplements their creative expression with the likes of Only Fans while a corporation makes most of the money from other people’s creativity.
Very interesting. I love live music and want to support artists. But ticketron and Vivid and Ticketmaster have made it ridiculously expensive to see anyone. Their fees, plus scalpers who buy them directly and then charge exorbitant prices have made live music impossible for many (me).
I was interested in the comments concerning musicians. I was a musician for 35 years...a classical singer who sang opera and oratorio at places like Carnegie Hall, Lincoln Center, the Kennedy Center and off to Germany, Italy, the Czech Republic, etc. Even Taiwan. I made enough money to rent a house and feed myself. I was a good, healthy singer and now, at the age of 85, I can still sing well, although about 4 of my highest notes are gone....so I just sing music that has lower notes.
But I really didn't start making money until I joined academia....teaching at the Peabody Conservatory of the Johns Hopkins University. It was really shocking to be paid so little to actually SING....even though I got terrific reviews everywhere. And often I found out that I was being paid more than other members of the solo quartet. Good heavens. We all did some private teaching on the side to make ends meet.
Think how important music is! Even the most primitive peoples make music of some sort. It is as necessary as Vitamin D to sustain health. Why isn't it honored more?...except for a few very well-known performers, there is barely a living wage to be made. I find that inexpressibly sad. And now some schools are cutting their music programs. Oh please.
I grew up with a novelist, my sister is a composer and I'm a writer/visual artist, so this conversation has always been in the background of my life, at home and with creative friends! I earn more by mentoring and creating courses on creativity as that's something I'm also really passionate about, especially as someone who can be inconsistent in my online presence. What's the answer -- Universal Income Schemes for artists?
Thanks for writing this! It saddens me how art is so undervalued monetarily. Beauty and art make the world worth living! At one point in my career, I made a nice income from licensing my photography and doing freelance work for gardening magazines. Then digital photography came with the promise that we would not make as much per image but would make it up in volume 😂. Now that I'm retired, I no longer need to worry about that, but my heart goes out to those trying to make a living from any form of art.
I am a musician of a sort and found this newsletter chimed with me. I am trying to monetise my demos by putting them behind a paywall here and have rejigged my Substack to represent my music practice. I have put some songs on Spotify/Apple but had a very small return. My music career is seriously fledgling and something I have had to put on the back burner which is frustrating.
This summer I read a few articles about Olympic athletes admitting they were on Only Fans as well as they hardly got much of an income in their disciplines to sustain their career and I found it both shocking and understandable.
Shocking that people at that level of excellence can't afford to focus on training alone because they don't have any financial stability as apparently depending on the sport you're in and how well-known you are the way to make money is via sponsorhip deals with brands, which admittedly most athletes don't have until they win something and are put on the spotlight somewhow. So therefore it is understandable they try to sustain their sporting career by finding alternative ways of making money that don't require too much effort.
The fact that artists also are going down that path as their art alone doesn't suffice is not surprising but it is as worrying as the fact athletes have to do it. The question is what kind of future we are building when there is no certainty at all that your work (whether you're an athlete or a creator or a doctor) is going to be enough to pay the bills unless you are exceptionally successful and can secure alternative streams of income. I'm worried we're headed towards a system where everyone is expected to find additional ways to monetise themselves in order to make a decent (not even luxurious) living.
I watched a great documentary a couple of weeks ago where they were interviewing artists in Germany, and 100% of them had another job on the side. One sentence that deeply resonated with me was when one artist said, "It is no longer about work-life balance but about art-life balance!" It was really heartbreaking, but also the truth.
I've accepted that I need to keep my job in tech four days a week to pay my bills while doing my art and writing on the other days. Life is so expensive now, and I can't imagine living on one-third of my salary just to be an artist full-time. I don’t think that would make me happy if I had to cut down on so much of my life - traveling, hobbies, and dining out. Thank you, Emma, for your reflections!
This is such a heartbreaking topic -- so glad you're shining a light on it. I'm perpetually mystified by how much the arts are needed, in tough times more than ever, and yet neither society wants to pay for all that hard work. Maybe it's more fun to write or make music than it is to work in an office full-time (I can vouch for this directly) but NOTHING is fun when you're scared about paying the bills.
As you say, we've created a system where people have been trained not to pay for art and to expect everything for free. I'm so grateful for substack as a place where people can support creatives directly. I wouldn't be able to spend as much time writing without it.
Thanks love. I know, it's heart-breaking and depressing. And even though there ARE new ways, it feels important to discuss the realities. maybe we are turning a corner and paying people directly is giving back some of that power and remuneration to the right places <3
Agreed. I feel like "shop local" has had a really positive impact, and I think writers and artists can benefit from this mentality, given how little people get from larger media outlets, as you've laid out so well here. Substack is like shopping local for writing? Maybe @Anna Brones can do a bumper sticker? 🤣
Something is making me want to just leave spotify playing lily allen on repeat. I cannot believe she didn’t get paid for that. It hurts more that she’s a woman too.
I've thought about it for a long time, and I know a music journalist, Stephan Kunze, here on Substack who wrote about his experience leaving Spotify. You can read his thoughts here https://www.zensounds.de/p/i-finally-quit-spotify-too
It’s so important to discuss this and perhaps even more important for well-known artists like you to do so. My recent book advance - generous by industry standards - is paid out over four years. This means that substack is my most consistent form of income and I’m not shy in telling my subscribers that they’re actually paying my bills, putting food on the table, allowing me to have the space to write without the pressure of wondering when my next invoice will be paid. The direct reader to writer support is so valuable - on a community level but especially financially x
I think that honesty and transparency with the people who support our work is the key to moving forward. An artist I follow here on Substack had some financial difficulties and shared his experience. I happily donated some money because I know how messed up our society is when it comes to supporting artists.
This is such a terrifying reality. I also notice a lot how people feel weird paying for online content. For example, people tell me I should write a book, and they would probably want to buy it to support me, but nobody wants to pay for the writing I do online because everyone just expects that to be free, even though it would probably help me a lot more than any sales I could ever make if I wrote a book. And I get it because until very recently I had a similar mindset. But yes, we need to change the way we think about this and support the artist more directly.
As an indie musician, this post was of great interest to me. I’m a Broadway actress/ singer who has self- produced my last 4 albums- my last album unexpectedly was nominated for Grammy award last year. I started my own Substack last year as a creative venture, a fun way to share a behind the scenes look at my work, recipes, my touring schedule etc. All my posts are free, but I’m toying with adding paid subscriptions next year as a way to help finance my next album. I think it’s important for musicians to own their own work- it’s hard work, but empowering.
We all consume art in some way or another as well as creating here, but I had no idea Spotify paid out so little to artists, that's completely taking their work for granted.
I have been thinking about money this week. I have this narrative, which I’m aware of but not sure I actually believe, which is that to expect your art to pay for your life is too big and ask and can end up commercialising it…. BUT that’s capitalism at play right there, isn’t it?! That’s undervaluing art and artists and the work we do. Someone somewhere is making the money and it should be the people doing the work!
Thank you for writing this. It’s why Instagram has become such a tricky place for me and why I want to build more and more on here 💙
Selina, Tamu and I recently role-played being financial dominatrixes after hearing how you can make serious dough from it. That’s before we got onto discussing feet. Absolutely hilarious 🤣🤣🤣 but also a sign of the f-d up times we’re in that we’re supposed to play starving artist who supplements their creative expression with the likes of Only Fans while a corporation makes most of the money from other people’s creativity.
laughing else i will cry! xxx
Very interesting. I love live music and want to support artists. But ticketron and Vivid and Ticketmaster have made it ridiculously expensive to see anyone. Their fees, plus scalpers who buy them directly and then charge exorbitant prices have made live music impossible for many (me).
I was interested in the comments concerning musicians. I was a musician for 35 years...a classical singer who sang opera and oratorio at places like Carnegie Hall, Lincoln Center, the Kennedy Center and off to Germany, Italy, the Czech Republic, etc. Even Taiwan. I made enough money to rent a house and feed myself. I was a good, healthy singer and now, at the age of 85, I can still sing well, although about 4 of my highest notes are gone....so I just sing music that has lower notes.
But I really didn't start making money until I joined academia....teaching at the Peabody Conservatory of the Johns Hopkins University. It was really shocking to be paid so little to actually SING....even though I got terrific reviews everywhere. And often I found out that I was being paid more than other members of the solo quartet. Good heavens. We all did some private teaching on the side to make ends meet.
Think how important music is! Even the most primitive peoples make music of some sort. It is as necessary as Vitamin D to sustain health. Why isn't it honored more?...except for a few very well-known performers, there is barely a living wage to be made. I find that inexpressibly sad. And now some schools are cutting their music programs. Oh please.
I grew up with a novelist, my sister is a composer and I'm a writer/visual artist, so this conversation has always been in the background of my life, at home and with creative friends! I earn more by mentoring and creating courses on creativity as that's something I'm also really passionate about, especially as someone who can be inconsistent in my online presence. What's the answer -- Universal Income Schemes for artists?
Thanks for writing this! It saddens me how art is so undervalued monetarily. Beauty and art make the world worth living! At one point in my career, I made a nice income from licensing my photography and doing freelance work for gardening magazines. Then digital photography came with the promise that we would not make as much per image but would make it up in volume 😂. Now that I'm retired, I no longer need to worry about that, but my heart goes out to those trying to make a living from any form of art.
I am a musician of a sort and found this newsletter chimed with me. I am trying to monetise my demos by putting them behind a paywall here and have rejigged my Substack to represent my music practice. I have put some songs on Spotify/Apple but had a very small return. My music career is seriously fledgling and something I have had to put on the back burner which is frustrating.
This summer I read a few articles about Olympic athletes admitting they were on Only Fans as well as they hardly got much of an income in their disciplines to sustain their career and I found it both shocking and understandable.
Shocking that people at that level of excellence can't afford to focus on training alone because they don't have any financial stability as apparently depending on the sport you're in and how well-known you are the way to make money is via sponsorhip deals with brands, which admittedly most athletes don't have until they win something and are put on the spotlight somewhow. So therefore it is understandable they try to sustain their sporting career by finding alternative ways of making money that don't require too much effort.
The fact that artists also are going down that path as their art alone doesn't suffice is not surprising but it is as worrying as the fact athletes have to do it. The question is what kind of future we are building when there is no certainty at all that your work (whether you're an athlete or a creator or a doctor) is going to be enough to pay the bills unless you are exceptionally successful and can secure alternative streams of income. I'm worried we're headed towards a system where everyone is expected to find additional ways to monetise themselves in order to make a decent (not even luxurious) living.
I watched a great documentary a couple of weeks ago where they were interviewing artists in Germany, and 100% of them had another job on the side. One sentence that deeply resonated with me was when one artist said, "It is no longer about work-life balance but about art-life balance!" It was really heartbreaking, but also the truth.
I've accepted that I need to keep my job in tech four days a week to pay my bills while doing my art and writing on the other days. Life is so expensive now, and I can't imagine living on one-third of my salary just to be an artist full-time. I don’t think that would make me happy if I had to cut down on so much of my life - traveling, hobbies, and dining out. Thank you, Emma, for your reflections!
and thank you, for sharing this! Makes so much sense. <3
This is such a heartbreaking topic -- so glad you're shining a light on it. I'm perpetually mystified by how much the arts are needed, in tough times more than ever, and yet neither society wants to pay for all that hard work. Maybe it's more fun to write or make music than it is to work in an office full-time (I can vouch for this directly) but NOTHING is fun when you're scared about paying the bills.
As you say, we've created a system where people have been trained not to pay for art and to expect everything for free. I'm so grateful for substack as a place where people can support creatives directly. I wouldn't be able to spend as much time writing without it.
So true, Caroline. If your basic needs are not covered, no amount of artistic work can make up for that. Have a wondeful day!
Exactly! Hope you have a wonderful day as well.
Thanks love. I know, it's heart-breaking and depressing. And even though there ARE new ways, it feels important to discuss the realities. maybe we are turning a corner and paying people directly is giving back some of that power and remuneration to the right places <3
Agreed. I feel like "shop local" has had a really positive impact, and I think writers and artists can benefit from this mentality, given how little people get from larger media outlets, as you've laid out so well here. Substack is like shopping local for writing? Maybe @Anna Brones can do a bumper sticker? 🤣
Something is making me want to just leave spotify playing lily allen on repeat. I cannot believe she didn’t get paid for that. It hurts more that she’s a woman too.
Infuriating.
I've thought about it for a long time, and I know a music journalist, Stephan Kunze, here on Substack who wrote about his experience leaving Spotify. You can read his thoughts here https://www.zensounds.de/p/i-finally-quit-spotify-too
And here https://www.zensounds.de/p/life-without-streaming
Yes! I agree. Can't help but see a link between OnlyFans being mostly women, and women not getting paid properly...
It’s so important to discuss this and perhaps even more important for well-known artists like you to do so. My recent book advance - generous by industry standards - is paid out over four years. This means that substack is my most consistent form of income and I’m not shy in telling my subscribers that they’re actually paying my bills, putting food on the table, allowing me to have the space to write without the pressure of wondering when my next invoice will be paid. The direct reader to writer support is so valuable - on a community level but especially financially x
I think that honesty and transparency with the people who support our work is the key to moving forward. An artist I follow here on Substack had some financial difficulties and shared his experience. I happily donated some money because I know how messed up our society is when it comes to supporting artists.
Yes the advance over 4 years thing! hurray for Substack ey xxx